Do You Love or Hate Your GTD Projects List? (Video Podcast)

Transcript

[music]

00:03 Todd Brown: Hello everyone, welcome to the Change Your Game with GTD Podcast. I’m Todd Brown and I’m here as always with Robert Peake.

00:09 Robert Peake: Hello!

00:12 TB: Our purpose in creating this podcast is to support you as you explore and implement the GTD methodology. We’re trying to share best practices, we’re trying to share our own experiences and thoughts, and as GTD trainers and coaches what we learn out in the world, as we deliver this material. And Robert we’ve had an email over the last little while from a listener to the podcast and Tim has really, I think, provided both of us with a lot of food for thought about topics that I think are probably of general interest for a lot of folks who are listening to the podcast.

00:51 TB: He’s… Tim is I think challenged with in many ways, some of the higher levels of GTD thinking. When I say that, what I mean is projects in particular and also things that are north of the projects and what we call the horizons of focus model, so things like areas of focus. And he sent us some very specific examples of things that he’s struggling with. So I think what you and I agreed, just as we were getting prepped for this is we’d spend a little bit of time talking about his specific examples and refer a bit on our own experience and how we think we might be able to help him. And as I say, I think these are topics that are probably gonna be of interest to an awful lot of people.

01:33 RP: Yeah, definitely, it was great to get that input and I think there’s a lot we can jump off on. Should we we kinda dig in with…

01:43 TB: Yeah, let’s go forth.

01:44 RP: So I think there were generally three areas that he felt where he’s struggling with in relation to the model and the only purpose of the model is how do you actually keep this stuff on a practical basis in your system so it works for you. And that is recurring type stuff, so it repeats at some kind of interval, it’s a similar type of pattern, open-ended stuff called just this I could always do more here, right? Things like sales or your health or whatever. And long-term stuff, so stuff that’s probably longer time horizon than what we typically define for a project, which is about within the next year or so. So, thoughts on those three, just at a high level in terms of what they are, how you think about them?

02:35 TB: Yeah, let’s start with repetitive projects, ’cause I think that’s something that’s really… I’ve run into it a lot and I’ve seen it a lot out in the world. He’s got these kind of regular commitments to make things happen. So in his case, he’s talking about the creation of some broadcast content is out of his life, but I completely get where he’s coming from, it feels like sometimes you’ve got… “I’ve gotta produce this thing, I produce this thing every quarter, or I produced this thing every month,” and the outcome therefore can start to look… Well, quite often it will in its initial entry in somebody’s system it will look exactly the same way that it maybe looked the last time around and therefore it’s not very inspirational in many cases. So if my goal is to write a blog once a quarter, okay, well, here we go. ‘Write blog’ shows up on my projects list once a quarter.

03:32 TB: So as I’ve been thinking about that one thing that he might wanna do is think about how is this iteration of that project different from previous iterations of that project. In other words, is there something special about the content that he’s creating? Can he define the topic that he’s gonna be talking about this time? Is there… What makes this project different from projects that he’s addressed in the past? And it may be that as he’s first engaging with this next iteration of this repetitive project it could be that at the beginning it looks exactly the way that it’s looked in the past, you know write the blog or whatever it is.

04:16 TB: But I’m just… I guess what I’d encourage him to do is as time goes by to think about, “How can I refine, how can I hone that outcome so that the project looks a bit more like something that is, well, more definite, more specific in terms of what I’m creating.” And number two, then probably more inspiring and something that he’s more interested in engaging with in his system. I don’t know, what do you reckon?

04:45 RP: No, I think that’s great, yeah. And particularly for those things where they are different topics and we have to do research, there’s stuff involved leading up to it that yes, it’s still the same, it looks like the same kind of deliverable or whatever it is, outcome, but that there’s variety to it. I think that’s great. One example that comes to mind for me of that type of thing is this podcast. So for me, I’ll just say how I manage this in my system, and this is gonna be a somewhat season-to-taste type of thing.

05:16 RP: But what I do, is I have recording scheduled in my calendar. As you know, we kinda just rock up and say, “Hi, how are you?” And hit the record button, right? So it’s not a significant difference or flavour in terms of the mechanics of how we do these ones, and not doing a lot of research beforehand or that kind of thing. In fact, we sometimes don’t know what we’re gonna talk about until a few minutes before. Downstream of that producing the podcast is also very routine. So, once we’ve recorded it, it’s at that point that I put a project in my system.

05:53 RP: So for me the calendar reminder is enough that in my weekly reviews, I’m gonna catch, “Oh hey, a podcast is coming up.” And because I don’t need to do a lot of prep for that, that’s the triggering event that then causes me to create a project. Now the project downstream of that is very regularised. So, one thing I highly recommend for anything that’s template type of work is a checklist. A wonderful thing about a checklist is… Well, just a couple of weeks ago someone said, “Hey, something about checking the audio levels that goes into my check-list.” So every time I’m refining, every one of these runs is getting a little bit better because I’m refining a very standardized list of what needs to happen to get all the way to completion. And I know, I’ve not missed any bits. So, that checklist goes straight into my projects aboard. I just literally copy-paste that in. I’ve got the outcome right at the top, starts out as, let’s say, August podcast produced, and then I actually change it to what the title of the podcast is when we decide on one.

06:57 RP: And then there’s waiting for it, and back and forth and approval and waiting for the transcript to come back and all kinds of things. There’s mechanics there that really merit that being a project. But for a lot of these things that are routine or recurring, I can start with a calendar reminder if that’s really the starting line, the starting block for this thing. If it’s not, I want a project in there that says, “Hey, leading up to,” whatever that calendar event is, I’m gonna be doing stuff. But either way, if it’s at all routine or as Todd said if there is some variation and some mix perhaps of routine, having a checklist and knowing what the appropriate trigger is gonna be for you to get that into your system as an active commitment is, I think, really, really important to managing that type of thing.

07:48 TB: It’s a great point, and I think that’s just a general reminder for all of us, myself included, I find that really helpful that it’s not always the case that something needs to be a project until it really makes sense for it to be a project, right? If what you’re saying, and I think what I’m hearing you saying is, if you had a project in your system prior to these video link calls we do that said, “Produce the podcast,” or whatever, that wouldn’t feel helpful. But for you, it’s the trigger of the calendar event that actually says, “Okay, now it’s time to create the project.” So yeah, great, and some great self-awareness there I think as well of what works for you. And obviously any entry in your system, you need to feel like, “Hey, that’s helpful. I wanna see that. That’s something that I’m encouraged therefore to engage with my system because I know that I’m going to find reminders there that are reminders that I wanna see.” Good stuff.

08:46 RP: Yeah.

08:46 TB: Good stuff. So let’s move on to Tim’s second point. He’s talking about handling open-ended… He calls them open-ended commitments. He doesn’t use the word commitments, but things that he needs to do on a regular basis. He’s talking about setting up a social event, which he does regularly for a group of friends. And I think this is a really interesting one. It’s tangential to what we’ve already been talking about, but it might be helpful for us to talk a little bit about how this now starts to get into the areas of focus, right? So what he’s saying is, “Hey, every couple of weeks, we put together this social event. Part of what I need to keep track of is the fact that that’s a commitment that I have, and that I’m going to be counted on people, counting on me to arrange. Any thoughts on that? Any thoughts on advice?

09:46 RP: Yeah. I think the areas of focus versus project distinction is an interesting one because once people learn that something that’s open-ended as an area of focus, that that can really help them they go, “Oh okay, I get how that’s distinct from a project,” but that doesn’t mean you don’t also have projects within that area. So it can be really useful with an open-ended thing not to just go, “Oh well, this is open-ended. I’ll put it on my area of focus list, and that’s that. It’s not a binary thing.” It could be, yes, this is an area of focus called “socialised regularly”, just in the… Have it more and more of just coming out wherever I can as a big old nerd. So I’ll give my example is actually, I run a regular Dungeons & Dragons role-playing group, and that’s an area of focus for me.

10:40 RP: I want it to be great. I wanna make sure we’re doing it regularly and so forth, but the individual scheduled sessions, I have preparation and things to do for. And so that to me is a discrete commitment. We got a game coming up on Sunday. That’s a project because I’ve got more than one step to get ready to do that thing. So socialising regularly maybe an area of focus, specific social events if there are multiple steps and projects and planning I think to do that you’ve actively committed to, maybe a project. So I think one of the keys with areas of focus is not to just go, “Oh well, that’s just ongoing,” but to really say, “Well, that’s ongoing and are there specific instances of things I need to do in relation to that to keep that ongoing thing on track?”

11:28 RP: And really, to me, that’s the purpose as I see it of the areas of focus is that practical thing of being able to scan down a list and say, “Health and family, and sales and whatever,” and say, “Is there anything I need to do about these? Is there any practical projects in a sense getting instantiated or created as a result of reviewing these higher level areas?” I don’t know what’s your experience with the areas of focus with that distinction?

11:57 TB: Yeah, I think you brought up something that’s really important, which is… We talk about the benefits in GTD of having a system with clean edges. One of the things that I think is really important is that your areas of focus are not in the same place as your projects. I know that’s a small thing. That sounds like a small thing, but I think it’s really important. It’s your point, what you don’t wanna be doing is looking over a list of things which have different meaning for you. So yeah, what I’d say is number one, make sure that the areas of focus is a separate list. And by the way, it could very well be that your areas of focus list doesn’t get the same frequency of review as your projects list. A lot of people find that looking at their areas of focus list, yeah, once a month does it, that’s as much as it needs.

12:45 TB: So that’s one thing I’d say. The other thing that I’d say is yes, absolutely, I’m with you about areas of focus as we review them, they quite often beget projects and the projects then help us to make sure that we’re maintaining those areas of focus appropriately, yes, absolutely. And the other thing that I guess I’d say, and this might work for Tim, I don’t know, but it could also be that sometimes in order to have an area of focus being maintained at the appropriate level, you just need to have actions. It might just be that there’s a next action or a waiting for, or it might be that there isn’t a project, right? That let’s just take as an example, he’s got this social event coming up that he’s going to be taking part in but by and large it’s being run by somebody else, he’s delegated it to somebody else. And in that case, all he might need to have in his system then is a waiting for reminder, that says, “Hey, this person is making this meeting happen.”

13:47 TB: So yeah, again, I think I find those situations really quite interesting, it goes back to some people’s understanding of the horizons of focus, and certainly mine, initially was, “Okay, well if you’ve got an area of focus then you must have a project, if it’s not being maintained properly, and then you must have a next action of course, to move that project forward.” Well actually in some cases, the project level of the model isn’t appropriate. So all you need to do is as I say, is have the next action.

14:19 RP: I think that’s a really, really good point particularly about separating a list and just all of that, and as I hear you talk, one of the things I’m thinking about is the difference between… I think initially a lot of people get the rule and go, “Alright, let’s apply the rule.” But there’s a higher thing here too which is making sure that this is extremely practical for you in terms of how it helps you, and I think one of the best ways I know to do that is to cast my mind forward, to think about my future self and to think about what is that self going to want or need by way of reminders input information structure so that I’m making sure that I’m not… Nothing is slipping through the cracks for me, and that I can make sure nothing slipping through the cracks for me almost as mindlessly as possible, because I have just the right kind of reminders built.

15:16 RP: And the other thing I hear you really talk about is not overbuilding or under-building, like you’re saying an area of focus could have a single next action. I think of health, I’m going to the dentist, I don’t need a dental sparkling teeth project there. Now I see that on my list along with the dentist calendar item, I just go, “No, it’s not, it’s not.” That’s too many layers, too much building maybe based on the rules or your understanding or misunderstanding of the rules. As you say, really getting practical and ruthless with this, and one of the things is, if you do have a lot of mixed stuff and you find yourself feeling repulsed by those lists or uneasy with those lists or overwhelmed by those lists, you can start to go, “Well, why is this not practical for me? Why am I not coming away from this going, “Yeah, alright, I’m on top of this stuff.”

16:09 RP: And that’s a great question to ask and the answers are gonna be different for different people, but usually it comes down to over-building, under-building or mixing, mixing stuff up. So yeah, that’s great.

16:22 TB: Or lack of frequency of review, right, is the other thing, people just aren’t engaging overall.

16:26 RP: Yes, their system. That’s a great one. And that leads nicely into… To talk about the open-ended stuff, and what’s the appropriate level of build or the appropriate structuring. To his third question which is about the really long-term stuff, the stuff where you know you’re committed to doing it but gosh, it’s two, three years or more from now, what are your thoughts on that?

16:49 TB: Well, I think… Let’s go back to this idea that the commitments that you have and the way that you track them in your system, there needs to be enough granularity there to be helpful. So what I’m getting at is if you’ve got an outcome that is two years away, again, if we just use the GTD words around all this, we would call that a goal. That’s not a project, that’s not something you’re gonna do in the next 12 months, it’s a goal, it’s something that’s a bit further down the road. So again, my first piece of advice would be, have a place where those kinds of things live.

17:28 TB: What’s interesting, I think about the horizons of focus in general is that as you go further up in the model in terms of the levels of the model, so as you go from projects to areas of focus, to goals, the complexity of the system that you need to maintain those things goes down, especially at the upper levels of the model, it’s just a list, right and in many cases, quite a short list is pretty much all you’ll probably need. But anyway, number one would be make sure that you’ve got a place in your system where those longer-term things live. And then I think a really interesting question is, okay, well, if I need to have created this thing in two years’ time, what’s my project? Right?

18:13 TB: And there might be multiple projects, but what are the things that I need to do in the next 12 months in order to enable that? So Tim’s example is talking about… Is about writing a book. Okay, well then if the book is due in a couple years time, then what are the projects? What are the things that need to get done this year in order to enable that the publisher has the complete draft by the end of whatever, in two years time. The projects might have to do with research, the projects might have to do with drafting chapters, it might have to do with conversations with people, setting up conferences to gather ideas. I’m just spinning ideas here but I think that’s again, one of the things that is important is that we’ve thought through the outcome and in this case, this longer term, this two-year outcome.

19:14 TB: We’ve thought it through and we’ve itemised it, we’ve created the right level of detail so that we, number one, get the thing off our heads and number two, that we feel like we’ve set up the right outcomes to achieve in order to make sure that that longer term goal in fact, happens. I don’t know, what do you reckon?

19:38 RP: That’s great and I see some parallel there with the areas of focus, right? That thing of… When you identify those areas of focus or a long-term goal or whatever that’s great… But it’s not necessarily just out of sight out of mind, that may still then cause you to realise there are some newer term projects or individual actions that you need to take in the immediate horizon of activity to be able to either maintain that area of focus or move towards that long-term goal. So I think it’s similar, it’s kind of a… You need both, it’s not an either or thing in a lot of cases, for these ones that do also contain an active commitment component.

20:21 RP: And as, you were talking, I was thinking really in terms of all of this, finding the right structure, or level structure, I think you used to word granularity for you at a meta-level. I think what I’m thinking about when I’m trying to find that for myself, in terms of my system to keep my system sharp and relevant, is kind of the question, “What do I need to do in my system so I can sort of forget about it now, but recall it, when I need to? Right? What do I gotta do so I can go, “Okay, that’s off my mind for now I can focus on something else, but I’m confident that I’m gonna be able to recall it when I need to.”

21:02 RP: So in the case of a long-term goal that just I’m gonna look at it next year, fine if it’s a long-term goal, but I’ve got a project that I need to be moving on now, fine, if there’s an action for that great, if there are some calendar items for that great, but you don’t stop, you really don’t stop in terms of building the elements you need into your system until you can kinda say, “Okay I know I’m gonna hit those reminder points based on my habits of reviewing calendar, or a weekly review, and daily list review and so forth. I know I’m gonna hit those reminder points later, I can truly let go of it now.”

21:40 RP: Until you hit that point, I think you haven’t probably built enough and if you’re just going on rules of, “Oh, this is an area of focus,” and whatever and then suddenly you’re needing to pretend you have to fill in all the subsequent components. There’s gotta be a project because the model always has to cascade down or whatever you may then be over-building. So I think rules lead to over-building and a lack of really getting clear about what is my future self absolutely gonna need can sometimes lead to that, that under-building as well.

22:14 TB: I think that’s a nice segue then into the last issue that Tim wrote us about and that’s this… The words that he uses, are that when he’s engaging in his weekly review, and he’s engaging with his list, he finds that his eyes glaze over at the projects list. And so… Oh I’m sorry, there’s one more point which we will come on to which is how he maintain support, and reference material. Well actually, sorry, let’s do that one first. That may be a bit more tactical and probably a bit more quickly handled. So his question is about how do I maintain support in reference material for these looping or slowly unfolding projects, right?

22:56 TB: So it’s this marrying up of, hey the outcome, or the area of focus for that matter, but whatever it is, is well defined in my system. If it’s an outcome, ideally, it’s a sentence or two that talks about what the done state looks like. If it’s an area of focus, it’s a description of that area in my life that I need to maintain. But, as Tim implies quite often there’s quite a lot of information that goes along with a project, an area of focus, a goal. So what do we do with that? What do you do with that in your own system, or what have you, seen that works out in the real world?

23:32 RP: For me, a lot of it comes down to, how often am I gonna be in and out of this, how often am I gonna need this reference material as I go about my day-to-day and my work. So, in answering that question, the answer that I’ve come up with for myself is a distinction between projects support and general reference. So I’ll tend to put into general reference anything that’s long-term or in relation to an area of focus or just anything that I need to get back at some point, but isn’t strictly related to something that I’m doing in my immediate action horizon, right within the next year, on a project list that kind of thing. That’s where general reference filing goes. Most of it is digital. I’ve got some physical… I’ve got a filing cabinet behind me for the physical stuff. Most of it’s digital, simple A through Z, labeled the way I’m gonna think of it when I want it back. And that’s how it goes in. I do also have a folder, I’m looking at it right now, on my desktop called Project Support.

24:38 RP: And this is for those active projects where I label it based on something that reminds me of what the project outcome is and that’s where I keep stuff that I’m gonna be in and out of a lot more frequently. So, for me, having those discrete places rather having to search all over the place and having it all kind of bundled in one place for projects in particular really helps me. Anything other than a project, I’m typically gonna just put into general reference for now and know that when it’s time to initiate projects or bring some of that stuff forward that I will, but I really kind of distinguish between reference in relation to actionable and reference that’s just reference that I’m not action-ing now. What do you do Todd?

25:26 TB: Yeah, I think my system is broadly similar, most of my reference whether it’s project-specific reference, or whether it’s just more general reference is digital. I, like you, have a filing cabinet. I have… You have to meet the person in my travels, Sue has completely done away with paper that we all have a bit of paper in our lives, but that paper reference is not terribly often referred to, it’s there in case we need it but it’s not, it’s not something we’re dipping in and out of every day. And a bit like you, if you look at my system, what you can see is there is a section in which I maintained in, it’s mostly is email reference, really which is really just project-specific stuff and broken down by project so it’s very clear and very quick to get into and get the things that I need.

26:20 TB: It just reminds me of what we say in GTD 101. It’s, “Does your system have clean edges?” And what I mean by that is if I said to you, “Okay, point to your project support,” you could do that. Whether it was on a screen or whether it was physical or on your desk, you could point to your project support, right? So I think that’s important when we think about our own systems. One test for does your system have clean edges is pick an element. Is it action support? Is it your general reference? Where do I find that? If I were gonna be looking at your system, where would it go? And that very simple question, I think can help in a lot of instances.

27:01 RP: Yeah. One little quick aside, just on the recurring projects to point out is that I do have a specific area called checklists. So that’s where I’ll go to find, for example, what are all the things I need to do to make sure this podcast is produced right? What are all the things I need to ask in a call before a coaching session to make sure I’m ready to go when we start the coaching? What are… All of these different things. And so the things that are related to recurring projects or activities, I have one area called checklists where all of those go. And there are other checklists in there that are not necessarily related to recurring things but that’s just as I said, that’s technically where I put those guys as well.

27:43 TB: Great, great, good reminder. So let’s come on then to that final point about if you’re finding that as you’re engaging with your projects list your eyes are glazing over, what’s going on? I’m sorry, that’s a… It’s a frustration. And the reason I was smiling just then is because I’m taken back to when I was getting certified as a coach by Meg Edwards all those years ago and one of the things that Meg used to say was, “Look, really, when it comes down to it, there’s either the things in your system attract you or they repel you. There’s very little middle ground for most people.” And that comes to mind for me quite often in situations like this, right? If your eyes are glazing over when you’re engaging with your projects lists and it’s clearly not attracting your system, those elements of your system. So what would we… If somebody’s got a situation where it’s come weekly review time and they’re looking through their projects list and they just go, no inspiration, no engagement or very little engagement, what would we… What would you tell folks in that situation?

28:52 RP: Well, one of the first things I find is something you mentioned earlier, that’s just on a purely practical basis, is you may be mixing and matching. Your brain really doesn’t like that. When you tell your brain, “We’re gonna look at a list of outcomes that are all active outcomes we’re committed to,” and there’s even one or two things in there that aren’t that, it creates some real dissonance. It really does. And it slows the process down because you’re having to think in a different way, in a context that’s supposed to be homogeneous. So really, I think that’s a big starting point. It’s just the mechanics of it called are your projects really projects? Are your actions really actions?

29:40 RP: If so, then are they really stated in a way that gives you the maximum opportunity to be able to recognise them without rethinking? And that’s the other part, I think, that creates cognitive dissonance that just on a practical basis causes you to go, “ugh” when you look at those lists is having to rethink in anyway. So to prevent that projects stated as outcomes, I just say what’s the finish line you’re gonna cross? How would you say that? What would you tell yourself? Or what would be true in order for you to tick this project off as done? And that’s literally what you write.

30:21 RP: Now, on top of that, if ideally, you want it to be enticing, desirable, positive, successful, you wanna be priming your brain for what this looks like to successfully cross this finish line. So they’re not stated that way. That’s the next kinda level of clean up. And ditto the next actions. Next actions is quite the opposite. You want just the smallest, most bite-sized, most “I have no excuse not to do it,” kinda statement about what the very next action is. So, yes, making sure it’s all of one type, that it’s consistent with what you’ve said, that it’s within a clean edge and all of that type when it’s in the edge and then that it’s really stated optimally so that the projects are inspiring and the next actions seem easy to do, it’s the best way I know to kind of prime your mind for, “Hey, we can do this. Hey, we can do this.” And that’s the kind of feeling you wanna be having is, “Hey, we’re on top of this” and “Hey, we can do this,” as a result of a weekly review. What do you think Todd?

31:31 TB: Yeah, no, as you’re talking about it, and the example that comes to mind for me and I think I might have quoted this before but I’ll just mention it again ’cause I think it’s… I proposed in a coaching once… Sorry, no it was in a seminar. And we were talking about what somebody’s desired outcome was and she was saying that she was moving house. She was gonna get a new flat. And so she could have expressed that in, “Well, I’m good. I’ve moved,” or “I’ve moved into my new flat” or something like that and… But the words that she chose, I absolutely love, she said that her desired outcome was, “I am sitting on the balcony of my new flat enjoying the view and a glass of wine with my cat.”

32:19 TB: And I absolutely love that because at the end of the day both outcomes in a sense a logical person would look at them and go, yeah, well, I recognise that they are similar things but the emotional content and therefore the motivational content of the second one is so much more powerful and so… And I know it can also be a little bit… A little embarrassing sometimes to come up with those more emotionally engaging outcomes but no one else is gonna look at this so go ahead, embarrass yourself a bit, pick an outcome that really speaks to you, it doesn’t have to be 100% by the way guaranteed achievable. David, very memorably says, David Allen memorably says, “Your outcome should be 51% believable,” so go for that kind of a threshold. But yeah, choose forms of words and images that really make you feel like, yeah, this is something that’s important to me and I’ll be excited when I’ve achieved it and it feels like an outcome worth striving for.

33:32 RP: Definitely, we’re emotional beings and as much as this is a dispassionate and logistical system how you relate to that dispassionate and logistical system you’re still relating to your life which is very much either a being inspired or enduring grudgingly kind of experience and you get to pick. So definitely set yourself up with those outcomes that are as you say believable and inspiring and get the ones that aren’t off of there, I think is another thing. So when we talk about stuff that’s all of one type any of those projects that are no longer really active commitments or that you just go, “Wow, there’s just so many here,” the next question is, “What can I renegotiate? What can I renegotiate? What can I take and put into some day maybe in a conscious responsible way so I’m not just dropping it ’cause, frankly I had so much on I might just drop it and feel bad about it if I just keep it on here and pretend that I’m ever gonna be able to do it. What can I get out of here? What can I craft and truly not inspiring stuff can I move along in my life and get out of my active system into a place where I’m not gonna lose it but I’m gonna review it a lot less frequently to say, “Do I have capacity now or a desire for this?”

34:57 RP: So yeah, that just remind me of another element of the inspirational project list is that it is all stuff that you really are choosing to do and can do and is reasonable to do for you and if it’s not it’s renegotiation time and there’s no shame in saying, “I thought that was important now it’s not, hey, guys, we’re not doing this anymore,” so that I can focus here on this stuff that really is inspiring and meaningful.

35:31 TB: Great stuff. Well, I’m seeing from the clock on the wall that it’s about time we began to wrap things up and I wanna thank Tim for sending in these examples, these questions and issues that he was confronting in his own system, and in his own practices. Thank you again, some really rich food for thought here, I’m sure it’s been… Well, I certainly hope it’s been helpful for you and I’m sure it’s been helpful for an awful lot of people. And that’s also by way of a reminder for everybody else please do feel free if you have any other topics. We’ve had other couple come-in in the last few weeks haven’t we Robert?

36:06 RP: Yes.

36:07 TB: That we’ve put in the hopper for potential future coverage. So anything that you’d like us to be talking about please do be in touch, our goal in doing all of this work is really just to be of as much help as we possibly can be. And with that, thank you for being with us we look forward to talking to you next month. Robert great as always…

36:24 RP: My pleasure.

36:24 TB: Have a great rest of the summer, we look forward to talking to you next month about all these things. And in the meantime, be well, enjoy your GTD journey and let us know how we can be of help.

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